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  • Can you go back up to levels 1-14 after you go down to level 15 and face the DM-300?

    If I can NOT go back up, then I need to use the Troll Blacksmith and choose which items to leave behind. I've got two sets of scale armor, so I could upgrade that. But, I'd prefer to upgrade my battle axe. Both Battle Axe and best Scale Armor are currently +6.

    Despite having the Seed Bag and Scroll Holder, I've got too much to carry. In addition to primary Scale Armor and Battle Axe, I've got: Weapons: Shuriken (x15), Curare Dart (x11), Tomahawk (x7). Wands: Poison (x2), Regrowth, Flock. Potions: Healing (x8), Levitation (x2), Flame (x2), Paralytic (x3), Toxic (x3), Purification, Frost, Invisibility.  Other: Ration (x2), Overpriced Ration, Dew Vial, Lloyd's Beacon.

    I may sell the Shuriken, but I'd hate to run out of ranged weapons. I may sell one of the Poison wands--but having 2 is handy for killing wraiths in rooms with multiple tumbstones. I'm trying to figure out which potions are NOT useful against remaining bosses, invisibility and levitation?

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    • You haven't tried?  Yes, you can.  =)  The rubble disappears the same way it appeared when you entered DM-300's donut room.

      [Go ahead & reforge your Battle Axe; you'll need the damage, especially since you've already invested in it.  I would've waited for Plate Armor, rather than investing Upgrade scrolls into the Scale Armor.  Keep your eyes open for a Tier-5 weapon, though.]

      As for Item Prioritization (this is just what I would do, so you don't have to follow it if you don't want to), you may indeed want to sell your Shuriken for Gold.  They're unreliable in terms of their damage output & the insane accuracy needed to land them (e.g. basically only during Surprise Attacks - attacking an enemy that just opened a door, et c.).  You've got your Wands of Poison to deal Damage-Over-Time anyway, which is more reliable; & you're relying on melee combat, with an upgraded Battle Axe.

      Keep your wands; the D-16 Shop will be selling the Wand Holster anyway.  (You'll definitely need Wand of Flock for the King of Dwarves boss fight & the Yog-Dzewa boss fight.)

      Sell Levitation.  Invisibility will be useful for both upcoming boss fights, but probably more useful against Yog-Dzewa than the KoD.  You can drop any non-urgent (but still needed) items by the D-16 Shop, and just come back for it later, with your Lloyd's Beacon set to right beside the Shop.  This is what I do at each stage.  (If I have a Lloyd's Beacon, that is.  I'm a pack rat in this game, so I make it work.)

      [I don't know why you bought Overpriced Food Ration; it's a waste of Gold for the most part, and that's coming from someone who taps Search a lot.  Eat that thing & save some space.]

      Potions you need for the KoD:  Healing (obviously), Liquid Flame (since you don't have Firebolt wand & applying Burning will help along with applying Poisoned), Toxic Gas (to be tossed at the pedestal KoD is standing on), Purification (to drink right before Undead Dwarves paralyze you), & Invisibility (to approach either pedestal before the KoD does).

      Potions you need for Y-D:  Healing (obviously), Paralytic Gas (to be tossed at both fists, to approach the eyeball unharmed; try to get both with one potion), Invisibility (will probably be more useful here than with the KoD; use after tossing the P-Gas potion at the fists, so they can't track you back to the eyeball after the P-Gas dissipates), Liquid Flame (against Rotting Fist while it's paralyzed in the P-Gas you tossed), & Frost (against Burning Fist while it's paralyzed in the P-Gas you tossed, or to drink if it gets near you & burns you).

      So, come to think of it, with the Wand Holster & setting Lloyd's Beacon to the D-16 Shop, you probably won't need to sell anything after all!  =D  (For now, at least)

      Hope that helps!

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    • Thanks for the response. I've only gotten to DM-300 once, and died within a couple of levels of that never having tried to go back up. I will hold off on armor... and give myself a couple of more levels to find a second battle axe for the reforging. If I don't find a battle axe prior to the KoD, I may do the armor.

      Tier 5 weapon... Given how much I've invested in the Battle Axe would it really be worth it to switch?

      I'm generally not a fan of overpriced rations, but the wand of regrowth has allowed me to grind and I have around 2,000 gold.

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:
      ...give myself a couple of more levels to find a second battle axe for the reforging. If I don't find a battle axe prior to the KoD, I may do the armor.

      Tier 5 weapon... Given how much I've invested in the Battle Axe would it really be worth it to switch?

      I'm generally not a fan of overpriced rations, but the wand of regrowth has allowed me to grind and I have around 2,000 gold.

      NP!  =)

      Ohh, I thought you already had a 2nd Battle Axe to reforge with.  In that case, you should probably go ahead & reforge your Scale Armor.  A +7 will provide up to 36 damage absorption, which is just under the max damage that the KoD can inflict - 38 damage.  (Burning Fist deals 32 dmg & Rotting Fist deals 36 dmg)

      Well, it depends on how many Upgrade scrolls you've already used up & whether the Tier-5 weapon you may discover is already upgraded.  If you still have a few upgrade scrolls & you still have a few more to find (the max amount is 13 in a perfect run), and you find an upgraded War Hammer, or even a Glaive, then upgrading them would be to your benefit, since they'll deal even more damage.

      A +6 Battle Axe will deal an average of 26 damage, a minimum of 10 damage, & a maximum of 42 damage

      A +7 Battle Axe will deal 28 dmg average, 11 min dmg, & 46 max dmg

      If you find a base-level War Hammer, and you have, say 4 Upgrade scrolls, then a +4 War Hammer will have 27 avg dmg, 9 dmg min, & 45 max dmg.  But if you find one already upgraded to, say +2, then with your remaining 4 Upgrade scrolls, that'd instantly become a +6 War Hammer, with 33 avg dmg, 11 dmg min, & 55 max dmg.

      With the same premise towards a Glaive, a base-level upgraded to +4 would be 29 avg dmg, 9 dmg min, & 50 max dmg.  And a +2 Glaive upgraded to +6, it'd have 35 avg dmg, 11 min dmg, & 60 max dmg.

      So, you can easily see the benefit here.  But that's if you still have a few more Upgrade scrolls to spare & you find an upgraded Tier-5 weapon.  I don't know how many Upgrade scrolls you've already found & used, so I don't know how much more Upgrade scrolls would spawn for your game.  I'm just estimating your likelihood of finding a few more, since you're just now entering Stage 4, and are already +6 for both weapon & armor.  (You found them already upgraded?)

      But the numbers are there in each weapon's damage tables.  Take a look for yourself.

      You'll need 1K Gold for the Wand Holster, if you wish to save space. (Unless you want to go with my Lloyd's Beacon method of storing/hauling your items)  And whatever remaining Gold you'll have, you'll need for more Healing potions.

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    • I'm not sure how many upgrade scrolls I've used, I got the axe from the ghost and it was +1-2. I believe the scale was +1-2 also.

      If you are willing to grind, you can restore health and harvest a lot seeds with the wand of regrowth.

      I've set up the troll blacksmith's room as my storage area, so i can take the beacon back there for reforging and items left behind.

      I think I may wait until after DM-300 to reforge.

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:
      I'm not sure how many upgrade scrolls I've used, I got the axe from the ghost and it was +1-2. I believe the scale was +1-2 also.

      Ahh, mkay; so, my initial impression was correct.  You most likely used approx. 8 Upgrade scrolls already, so there should still be approx. 4 Upgrade scrolls left to find (5, if that run is a perfect one).

      Save those last few Upgrade scrolls for a Tier-5 weapon, if you find one; and hope that it's already upgraded to +2, so you can upgrade it to +6.  +1 is fine, too, but a base-level ("+0") one might be pointless to upgrade, since it'll almost have the exact same damage values as your +6 Battle Axe.  (Save for the Glaive, which will have higher max dmg)

      If the only Tier-5 weapon you find is degraded, go ahead & upgrade your Battle Axe & Scale Armor.

      •  +11 Battle Axe = 38 Avg dmg, 15 min dmg, & 62 max dmg
      •  +12 Battle Axe = 41 avg dmg, 16 min dmg, & 66 max dmg
      •  +7 Scale Armor = up to 36 dmg absorption
      •  +8 Scale Armor = up to 40 dmg absorption  (40 is the max you'll ever need for the entire dungeon)
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    • Thanks again Shadow.

      I've just cleared level 17, and have 3 upgrade scrolls, no Tier-5 weapons. I haven't run into a scroll of weapon upgrade yet, though there was an unidentified scroll that got burned by a fire trap quite a while back.

      I had the Troll Blacksmith upgrade the Scale Armour to gain an edge against DM-300 and cut down on shuttling back and forth, which is less rewarding when you stop gaining experience for killing enemies.

      Is there somplace where it explains the rules for no longer getting EXP for killing enemies?

      My new basecamp is on level 15, since grasses don't appear to provide dew drops on level 16 or 17.

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:
      I haven't run into a scroll of weapon upgrade yet

      You can’t: this scroll can only be obtained by throwing a Scroll of Upgrade into a Well of Transmutation.

      though there was an unidentified scroll that got burned by a fire trap quite a while back.

      It wasn’t a Scroll of Weapon Upgrade (see above) nor a Scroll of Upgrade (those ones cannot be generated over a fire trap, detected or hidden).

      Is there somplace where it explains the rules for no longer getting EXP for killing enemies?

      Yes, in the overview.

      My new basecamp is on level 15, since grasses don't appear to provide dew drops on level 16 or 17.

      You only got “the unlucky end of the probability stick”© ;)

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    • Very good info, thanks.

      It might be cool to provide a link to the "Level" page from the main menu. It could go under Dungeon>Game Mechanics>Level. One might refer to it as "Hero/ine Level" to disambiguate from dugeon level.

      <overstretch metaphor> Guess it's time to go beat some level 16 grass with a "probability stick."  <overstretch metaphor> :-)

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:
      It could go under Dungeon>Game Mechanics>Level.

      Oh, oops, it reminds me that I didn’t yet answered Shadow Automaton about moving Hero/ine attributes in game mechanics (or did I answered?)

      One might refer to it as "Hero/ine Level" to disambiguate from dugeon level.

      It’s precisely why we speak of depth or floor (a floor is a set or rooms and corridors while the depth is its numbered label, from 1 to 26). ;) I know that the “Hero/ine level” vs. “item level” ambiguity remains, but it still helps.

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:

      Thanks again Shadow.

      I've just cleared level 17, and have 3 upgrade scrolls, no Tier-5 weapons.

      Yup!  You're welcome!  (^_^)

      Mkay; if you haven't found one by the time you finish exploring Depth 24 (but before the Final Boss fight), then go ahead & dump your remaining Upgrade scrolls on your Battle Axe, or wherever you wanted to.

      My new basecamp is on level 15, since grasses don't appear to provide dew drops on level 16 or 17.

      Niiice..!  I turn Depth 15 into my giant Garden, too, whenever I get a Wand of Regrowth.  So useful for whenever I need a few more Healing potions, and I need to refill my Dew Vial.  I've actually made a comeback & obtained the AoY, from being underleveled (not having the needed equipment) at the Dwarven City stage, by doing this repeatedly.  XD


      Ethaniel wrote:
      Oh, oops, it reminds me that I didn’t yet answered Shadow Automaton about moving Hero/ine attributes in game mechanics (or did I answered?)

      (^_^)  Don't worry; you have.  I just forgot to implement it after I got your permission. XD

      It's implemented now.  =D  (Apologies for the delay, Tenbsmith!)

      You only got “the unlucky end of the probability stick”© ;)

      XD  I like how that's a thing, now.  LoL  Our shared catchphrase, Ethaniel.  LoL

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    • The new "Hero/ine Attributes" option on the menu is nice.

      I just finished the Ambitious Imp's quest--golums.

      I'm up to 5 scrolls of upgrade and tempted to use some before facing the KoD and the Demon Halls. I'm a bit concerned with how my warrior will deal with Demon Hall enemies ranged attacks. I don't have any good ranged attacks.

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:
      I'm up to 5 scrolls of upgrade and tempted to use some before facing the KoD and the Demon Halls.

      I'm a bit concerned with how my warrior will deal with Demon Hall enemies ranged attacks. I don't have any good ranged attacks.

      LoL; Up to you.  Though, I would hold on to those 5 Upgrade scrolls 'til I cleared Depth 24.  Your +6 Battle Axe should suffice until then.  You wouldn't want to regret not holding off on using it, after discovering a Tier-5 weapon in the Demon Halls.  I've had this happen to me enough times to want to warn you about it.

      Well, hmm.. do another Inventory-check real quick, like you did in your initial post.  I might be able to help you fight them off.

      (If you still have your Wand of Flock, make sure you don't use it against the Evil Eyes, as they'll shoot right through it & the sheep will amplify their attack.  Feel free to use Wand of Flock on the Scorpios, though; the sheep will block the Scorpio's ranged attack.)

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    • Shadow Automaton wrote:
      (^_^)  Don't worry; you have.

      Good to know! But I still have to answer to Mdsimmo about Wikia extensions…

      You only got “the unlucky end of the probability stick”© ;)

      XD I like how that's a thing, now. LoL Our shared catchphrase, Ethaniel. LoL

      I like the vivid analogy (BTW I’m a “Follower of Hofstadter” :p), this probability stick that you can randomly (unlike a sword, both ends look identical) hold by its lucky end (thus providing a good fighting stick) or by its unlucky end (thus you hit yourself with the stick). In fact, the probability stick is a good item idea (like a glyphed weapon, capable of the best and the worst) but very few people would like it. =)

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    • I'm changing the title of this thread to reflect the discussion that has evolved.

      I like Hofstadter's Law -- "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law."

      I plan to use 1 upgrade scroll on the Scale Armor and 3 on the Battle Axe. My frequency of potion use completing the Imp's quest on the 19th Floor was unsustainable. The better stats will help as I move my hoard of possesions down from the 15th floor and go deeper.

      I'll hold back one scroll of Upgrade in case of well of transmutation.

      I wish I'd held onto a tier 3 weapon to use when the Dwarf Monks disarmed me. That would save me a turn instead of picking up the B-Axe.

      Edit: I may hold back another scroll or two in case I get a good ring later.

      I have 6 Toxic and 6 Paralysis potions... Not sure how to use those. Throw at distant enemy and let them take damage as they approach you, keeping yourself out of the gas seems best.

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    • Ethaniel wrote:
      In fact, the probability stick is a good item idea (like a glyphed weapon, capable of the best and the worst) but very few people would like it. =)

      =D

      Don't we already have something like that?  XD

      Enchantment unstable quarterstaff


      Tenbsmith wrote:
      I may hold back another scroll or two in case I get a good ring later.

      I take it you didn't get a good one from the Ambitious Imp?

      I have 6 Toxic and 6 Paralysis potions... Not sure how to use those.

      If you haven't beaten the KoD yet, save the T-Gas potions for him & his Undead Dwarves. If you already have, you won't really need it past that point & you're better off selling them for Gold.  (Unless you plan on using them against Y-D's fists?  ..Which..would be a difficult tactic to employ.)

      You'll definitely need the P-Gas potions against the fists (so you can safely travel to Y-D's eyeball without getting attacked in transit), so save 'em for the final boss fight.

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    • (Off-topic, sorry Tembsmith.)

      Shadow Automaton wrote:

      Ethaniel wrote:
      In fact, the probability stick is a good item idea (like a glyphed weapon, capable of the best and the worst) but very few people would like it. =)

      =D

      Don't we already have something like that?  XD

      Enchantment unstable quarterstaff

      Yep, the unstable enchantment crossed my mind, but except when it provides blazing while you’re standing on vegetation, it is far more positive than negative. The probability stick is usually more balanced than that. ;)

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    • Ambitious Imp.. grrrrrrrr... ;-)

      No worries about off-topic, that's fun.

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    • Shadow Automaton wrote:
      Ethaniel wrote:
      In fact, the probability stick is a good item idea (like a glyphed weapon, capable of the best and the worst) but very few people would like it. =)
      =D

      Don't we already have something like that?  XD

      Enchantment unstable quarterstaff

      The entire dungeon is just a gigantic probability stick, and it's beaten me over the head more times than I can count. :P

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    • I defeated KoD but blew it on the Imp quest.

      In order to conserve healing potions I am working my way through floors 22-24 by teleporting back to floor 21 with Lloyd's Beacon when my health is half gone. On floor 21, I farm grasses for dew drops & seeds with my regrowth wand until health is full. Wash, rinse, repeat. I cleared level 22 this way and I'm working on level 23. This is slow going and I occassionaly get stuck using a health potion.

      INVENTORY. +8 B-Axe, +8 Scale. Missle Weapons: Curare Dart 10, Tomahawk 14, Javelin 5. Wands: Poison 2, Regrowth, Flock (2 sheep only). Potions: Healing 13, Levitation 2, Flame, Paralysis 7, Toxic 5, Purification 4, Frost 3, Invisibility 7, Mind Vision 3. Scrolls: Remove Curse 4, Psionic, Identify 2, Challenge 2, Magic Mapping, Teleportation, Upgrade 3, Terror 2, Mirror Image. Seeds: all. Other: Ration 3, Dew Vial, Lloyd's Beacon.

      The Toxic Gas is when i run across multiple enemies in a room.

      I may use Magic Mapping scroll & Mind Vision Potion on floor 24 to make a quick run for the stairs to 25.

      Holding onto 3 remaining upgrade scrolls until I'm sure there'll be no well of transmutation or cool ring. If nothing better comes along, I may upgrade Scale once and B-Axe twice.

      If I make it to Yog, I'll use potions mind vision, invisible & paralysis to get by fists. Cozy up to Yog with Earthroot and hack away.

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    • Ethaniel wrote:
      Yep, the unstable enchantment crossed my mind, but except when it provides blazing while you’re standing on vegetation, it is far more positive than negative. The probability stick is usually more balanced than that. ;)

      LoL  I think it's far more negative than positive, and more balanced, if it provides blazing while the Hero/ine is standing on vegetation & gets burned because of it.  Unless you're one of the people who enjoys the Anti-Entropy glyph?  XD

      Or did you mean, when it provides blazing while you're standing *beside an enemy* that is standing on vegetation?  LoL

      And, I wouldn't say that having the Unstable enchantment be able to cycle through to Burning & being able to take advantage of that on vegetation, isn't as balanced as the "Probability Stick".  (As TheDarkoko reported) Watabou patched the Infinitely Burning Flammable Tiles bug in update 1.7.0.  The enchantment itself is an additional gate to hinder excessive usage of Burning on vegetation.  Add on top of that, the rarity of the enchantment.  And add on top of that, how not many people really like (using) the Unstable enchantment in the first place.  So you've got lack of appeal, rarity, randomness of proc, & the recent hotfix, as 4 gates; I'd say that's pretty balanced.  ;b


      Tenbsmith wrote:
      INVENTORY: +8 B-Axe, +8 Scale.

      Missle Weapons: Curare Dart 10, Tomahawk 14, Javelin 5.

      Wands: Poison 2, Regrowth, Flock (2 sheep only).

      Potions: Healing 13, Levitation 2, Flame, Paralysis 7, Toxic 5, Purification 4, Frost 3, Invisibility 7, Mind Vision 3.

      Scrolls: Remove Curse 4, Psionic, Identify 2, Challenge 2, Magic Mapping, Teleportation, Upgrade 3, Terror 2, Mirror Image.

      Seeds: all.

      Other: Ration 3, Dew Vial, Lloyd's Beacon.

      Oh, so you went ahead & upgraded your B-Axe from +6 to +8; ohk.  For your quick, visual reference:

      [+6 B-Axe = 26 avg dmg, 10 min dmg, 42 max dmg]

      [+8 B-Axe = 31 avg dmg, 12 min dmg, 50 max dmg]

      (2 Upgrade scrolls = a difference of 5 avg dmg, 2 min dmg, & 8 max dmg)

      ________________________________________

      Your missile weapons will do just fine against the D-Halls enemies.  Use your Curare Darts & Tomahawks (in that orderespecially towards the Evil Eyes (& Succubi, to a lesser extent).  And your Javelins, especially towards Scorpios.  (I forgot to mention that the Wand of Flock can also prevent Scorpio from escaping, but you probably already figured that out.)  Spam your Poison wands on top of the missile weapons.  Damage-over-time is your best friend at this final stage.

      You don't need your Levitation potions & Challenge scrolls, so the next time you 'port back to D-21, just leave them there; they're just taking up space at this point.  (There won't be any chasm on D-24 for you to need Levitation.)

      7 Invisibility potions; they'll help you escape sticky situations.  You'd be better off avoiding combat with these enemies, rather than engaging them with your T-Gas potions.  Otherwise, you'll only exhaust your Healing potion supply, forcing you to 'port back to D-21 even sooner.

      3 Mind Vision potions for each depth; go ahead & use them, if you haven't been doing so already.

      (Your Scroll of) Terror doesn't work on the Evil Eyes, but works on the other two standard enemies.  It also doesn't work on Y-D (all 3 parts).

      Like I stated earlier, you don't need to upgrade your Scale Armor past +8; it provides up to 40 dmg absorption, which is the max you'll ever need for the entire dungeon. (Highest damage in one hit is 38 damage; excluding Giant Piranha from D-18 onwards.)

      Yog-Dzewa:

      Once you step onto an Earthroot next to the eyeball, if you're next to a wall, make sure you fire your Wand of Flock at it, diagonally & opposite of Y-D.  (So, e.g., if the wall is directly to your right & the eyeball is directly below you, aim & fire at the wall tile that's to the northeast of the Hero/ine.)  The sheep will provide much better protection from the fists than the Larvae that spawn.  Remember to fire that wand again, the moment your sheep disappears (unless you can keep track of the turns you take & know when to fire the next charge).  Also, remember to use your Mirror Image scroll in this boss fight, to give you additional damage towards the eyeball.

      Hope that helps!  =)  If you need advice on anything else, just Lmk.

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    • I've found the stairway to floor 24, but I had a bad run. I got sloppy, didn't set lloyd's beacon, ran into a bunch of monsters and now I'm down to 11 health potions. self anger.

      I'm gonna take a break from PD for a day or two. When I come back, I see three options. 1. Make a run straight to Floor 25 and Yog, to avoid using any more health potions. 2. Continue gradually working my way down using the cycle I've previously described. 3. Go back up to the last alchemy lab on floor 17, i have many seeds.

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    • There is a lab at depth 22 too. I’d say option 3 (at depth 22 if not too dangerous?) then 1.

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    • Hmmm, I'll have to take another look on depth 22 for a lab.

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:
      ...ran into a bunch of monsters and now I'm down to 11 health potions.

      So.. You didn't use your Invisibility & Mind Vision potions to avoid the enemies, like I advised you??

      (Or did you already do that before I posted & you were able to read my post?)

      If you can make it to D-25 undetected/unscathed, 11 Healing potions should suffice for your fight against Y-D.

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    • I was saving invisibility & mind vision for my final run. Trying to clear levels. Which was working pretty well, but I got sloppy, didn't set Lloyd's Beacon. I've searched depth 22 pretty thouroughly, and it appears I've got one of those rare runs without a lab on depth 22.

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    • Tenbsmith wrote:
      I was saving invisibility & mind vision for my final run. Trying to clear levels.

      By "final run", did you mean your ascent back to the surface??

      If so, you don't even need to do that - just make sure, before you grab the AoY from the pedestal, that you set Lloyd's Beacon to Depth 1.  I know it's a pain to make that trek, then come back, but it'll be worth it to be able to bypass the activation of increased enemy encounters/spawns on your way back up.

      If not, then I think 3+ Mind Vision potions & 7 Invisibility potions are more than enough for depths 23 & 24.  (You only really need 1 Mind Vision potion {for D-24} & no more than 2 Invisibility potions per depth; actually 1 Invis. potion should suffice, if used wisely.)  Like I've previously stated - avoid enemies; do not engage.  (Unless you're trying to level up some more??)  But that's only if you're still rushing to the D-24 exit?

      If you're trying to search rooms for items, that can still be done without engaging enemies, so long as you use your Mind Vision potion, then use your Invisibility potions, in rooms that have enemies in them.

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    • thanks for the advice. Ima get back to this game before too long and let you know what happens.

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    • A FANDOM user
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